It’s not rare to find Story publisher and Fireside head honcho Ben Hart behind the microphone. Usually it’s as the host of StoryCraft, his podcast about all things storytelling. But recently, Hart had the pleasure of switching roles, appearing as a guest on Socially Democratic, a centre-left politics and campaign podcast hosted by Stephen Donnelly, a man we once described as being responsible for bringing American-style storytelling to Australian politics (and helping to elect Daniel Andrews in the process).

Every week, Donnelly holds an in-depth conversation with a progressive mover-and-shaker on an issue affecting Australia and the world. So when Donnelly decided it was time to discuss the climate crisis through the lens of communications, Hart—who has over 25 years of experience in the field—was the obvious choice.

In this freewheeling conversation, the pair discuss why the environmental movement has struggled to persuade the community to act on climate change, and what needs to be done to turn things around (while we still have time).

Listen via the player up top, or head here to listen on your podcast player of choice.